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2020 Presidential Candidates

PennyForThoughts
  • 3 months ago

What are everyone's opinions of the current candidate selection. Please keep it civil.

Comments

  • 3 months ago
  • 11 points

Please keep it civil.

Yea ok, goodluck with that one.

  • 3 months ago
  • 5 points

So uncivilized.

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

Just wait. I give it a day.

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

Lol

  • 3 months ago
  • 5 points

My favorite candidate is Andrew Yang.

I appreciate the approach he takes to problem solving; he is both forward-thinking and data driven. I may not agree 100% with everything he espouses, but the reasoning and intention make me willing to give it a shot. His plans on paying for these policies are also much more sound long term and agreeable in theory in my opinion than others.

  • 3 months ago
  • 3 points

Oh I'm not brave enough for politics.

  • 3 months ago
  • 2 points

You are strong and wise, Anakin Nullarc, and I am very proud of you.

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

Obi Wan tomtomj2. May the force be with you.

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

Honestly I was thinking of commenting but nah, sometimes its better to sit back and watch lol

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

Gotta make time to enjoy your popcorn.

  • 3 months ago
  • 2 points

Haven't seen any good ones that can actually compete against Trump. A very important topic that is lacking in the US (same in Europe) is how are we going to reduce the deficit and reduce government spending.

  • 3 months ago
  • 5 points

Haven't seen any good ones that can actually compete against Trump

You say that like literally anyone with a degree in political science doesn't exist.

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

I don't really understand the link between what i personally think and having a degree in political science? My english is not the best could be what it is.

[comment deleted by staff]
  • 3 months ago
  • 2 points

Well, I’m thinking I’ll probably put my support behind Trump. Deep down, I know he isn’t what I want, but he currently is the best option available.

As to the Democrats: I’m only fond of two of them. Firstly is Yang; he seems to be a fine enough guy, and actually puts a moderate level of thought and evidence behind what he says. Though, his chances of getting the nomination are so slim that it probably doesn’t matter what I think of him. Secondly is Bernie Sanders. I may disagree with a lot of what this guy says, but you can tell that he is truly passionate about what he preaches, and he clearly loves our country. I’m not entirely sure I can say that about all of the candidates, which is unfortunate.

  • 3 months ago
  • 2 points

I would go for Trump as well, he is arrogant and rude, but he has kept this country in order and has some good ideas.

  • 3 months ago
  • 2 points

No love for Tulsi Gabbard? I've really been leaning towards her lately. I'll vote Trump again but should the cards come to it I'd love to put Tulsi in office. Her standpoints and arguments line up closely with my personal beliefs and opinions. She keeps herself very level headed and truthful when she's addressing questions and concerns, and the way she handled Kamala Harris to the point she withdrew from the race was outstanding.

Bernie has always been the same to me as you describe. I can tell he's passionate, and he does seem to truly care, but it's like he doesn't know how politics work. As much as I'd love to see better healthcare (or free healthcare), better student loans, higher wages and an overall better economy they're just not possible the way he's describing them. Do I have a better solution, no. Unfortunately I don't see a way we can make those things happen without large changes to our fundamental system. Bernie's plans would only increase taxes and the prices for goods and services. Large corporations and government figures aren't going to lose some of their earnings simply to help all of us and there's nothing in place to prevent those things from happening without some serious reform.

  • 3 months ago
  • 2 points

To be honest, I haven’t really done my homework on Tulsi Gabbard yet. I’ve been meaning to, but haven’t found the time. Though I can definitely say that I enjoyed watching her shred that snake, Kamala Harris! I think everyone was happy.

“As much as I'd love to see better healthcare (or free healthcare)”

My mind has been drifting towards this topic often lately. Now, I’m not a fan of what Canada or the Nordic countries have, but making healthcare easier on the consumer is clearly a holy grail to many. What kind of wacky hybrid system could somehow manage to bring the best of both worlds? I haven’t come up with any decent answers to the question, but I might be able to one day if I keep thinking about it.

  • 3 months ago
  • 2 points

She's definitely worth checking out, I think she's a perfect candidate running at the wrong time. Reason I say that is she's having to compete with heavy hitters like Biden, Sanders and Trump.

My family is actually from Canada, and my grandparents as well as my mom who are all Canadian nationals hate the system they have in place. It takes forever to get treatment and the quality isn't as good as the US (not bad, just not the best). Sure it's free, but at what other cost?

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

Very unfortunate.

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

Do you mind if I ask why you'd support Trump?

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

Firstly, I apologize for my very late response. Over the last bit of time I was making sure I knew everything for my Comptia A+ Exam (which I passed! Very proud)

Mostly, it comes down to the idea that I dislike the policies of the democratic candidates. If you more specifically want Trump’s achievements and qualifications:

  • The economy is looking pretty good. A lot of statistics back this up, though it isn’t perfect of course.

  • National defense is looking great to me. Just recently we heard the story of the major Isis leader taken out, and we had the heroic story about Conan the dog! I liked that very much.

  • The placing of Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court. He seems like a fine man to me and he successfully went through the trial, or whatever it was called. Semi-related, I actually heard that the big witness from that fiasco recently admitted it was all a lie. Haven’t confirmed this yet, but I wouldn’t be too surprised.

There are also fair reasons that pull me away from supporting him:

  • He seems incompetent. Now, I am not obsessed with the wall or anything, but it is very disappointing that he had four years and couldn’t manage to finish the structure. I also still remember the government shutdown that resulted in his personal defeat. It should not have been difficult; I should not feel that I, as a high-schooler, could have done better than the President of the United States.

  • I also have a bit of a bias against having a president I perceive as weak, lacking in wisdom/intelligence, or generally average/subpar.

  • 3 months ago
  • 4 points

-The economy was already doing pretty good, it just kept doing pretty good after Trump and he dumped gas on the stock market.

-National defense was already doing great. Trump literally just made us unaccountable for civilian deaths, but otherwise told them to keep doing what they're doing.

-Dr. Ford hasn't retracted her story or called it a lie.

I should not feel that I, as a high-schooler, could have done better than the President of the United States.

I know very little about you and still believe this is true. Congrats on your A+ exam!

  • 3 months ago
  • 2 points

Whether or not he’s directly improved economics and defense, I think there’s something to be said about a president that can at least maintain a rising economy.

“ Dr. Ford hasn't retracted her story or called it a lie.”

Alright, I had the chance to look more into this. It seems you’re more or less correct on this one. I was misremembering this from one of the corroborative witnesses backing down.


You know, recently I’ve been wondering what happened to ruin politics. The past 20-30 years have been kind of bad, but why? From 1900-1989 we had a string of really awesome presidents: Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, and Kennedy. There was a bit of a dark spot, but then we even got Ronald Reagan. What happened? Where have all the great men gone? Trump is kind of pathetic, and the democratic candidates really aren’t much better.

“Congrats on your A+ exam!”

Thanks very much! I also received an absolutely amazing SAT score just this morning. I’m in a pretty good mood and might start building an attempt at West Point. How are you doing, man?

  • 3 months ago
  • 3 points

Whether or not he’s directly improved economics and defense, I think there’s something to be said about a president that can at least maintain a rising economy.

I mean he could have done nothing and it would have maintained. But sure.

You know, recently I’ve been wondering what happened to ruin politics. The past 20-30 years have been kind of bad, but why? From 1900-1989 we had a string of really awesome presidents: Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, and Kennedy.

You're skipping plenty of divisive and sometimes awful stuff though that was happening all through this timeframe! Women's Suffrage, Jim Crow, Compulsory sterilizations, lynching, Red Scare, McCarthyism, Voting Rights, Vietnam, etc. Politics were always bad; we just have instantaneous and pervasive communication now. Back in the old days you had to specifically tune into the radio, at the right time, or you missed the story. Or you had to buy a paper and sit down and read it. Or you just heard what someone you work with heard from someone they know... Etc. Our history books suck, they literally don't teach the real history of the US. They kind of skim the highs and some approved lows. There was a lot of division and vitriol over lots of big policies.

Kennedy was kind of a mixed bag president, he just had good PR and, you know, being assassinated tends to bring out sympathy. Really has an outsized presence in the public mind.

Ronald Reagan secretly funded and armed terrorists in direct violation of laws passed by Congress. His administration also inflicted the trickle-down hoax on us, and we're still fighting this misinformation campaign to this ******* day. Expanded the dumbass war on drugs, laughed off AIDS epidemic, terrible record on environment, etc. Reagan sucked ***.

What happened? Where have all the great men gone? Trump is kind of pathetic, and the democratic candidates really aren’t much better.

Trump is a symptom of a sickness. He's a boil. The Democrats have a lot of milquetoast candidates hanging on, but I'm sure we are going to see some campaign suspensions early next year (Republicans did the same thing in 2015/2016). Bernie is a great man though. He's been fighting on the right side forever. Elizabeth Warren has been on the right side of this fight for a long time, I think all the work she did trying to get the CFPB off the ground shows that. I also think that Andrew Yang also has important ideas and seems like a good man. I don't know that he's what we need right now as president but I am happy he's raising the alarm.

Thanks very much! I also received an absolutely amazing SAT score just this morning. I’m in a pretty good mood and might start building an attempt at West Point. How are you doing, man?

Grats on that SAT score, that's great. West Point huh? Very nice, I don't know anything about what it takes to do that, but hooah. I am doing alright, not too much going on here, trying to jumpstart my stalling career lol.

  • 3 months ago
  • 2 points

I don't know about y'all, but I'm votin' fer Corn Pop.

  • 3 months ago
  • 2 points

"This is the thing- we- when Obama- when Obama and I- listen, here's the deal..."

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

Personally, I haven't paid any attention.

  • 3 months ago
  • 2 points

^ Makes life so much easier. I haven't paid attention a bit and do not plan to. I think the more people get wrapped up into it, the more unhappy and cynical they become. Only divides the country further.

  • 3 months ago
  • 2 points

That is deep.

  • 3 months ago
  • 2 points

Ignorance is bliss, as they say.

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

Don't vote McAfee.

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

I'm not crazy about any of them (including Trump), but my ideology is much closer to that of Trump than any of the democratic candidates and I think that a lot of the policies that a lot of the democratic candidates would put in place would be really bad for the economy. Overall I'm likely to vote for Trump if only to keep far-left candidates out of office.

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

Out of curiosity, which policies do you feel are most important and impact your voting decision?

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

I won't go about listing off everything, but their policies on abortion, religious freedom, and LGBT+ rights are important to me. I won't get into details unless someone asks, but I think you can infer a lot from the fact that I am an evangelical.

  • 3 months ago
  • 4 points

my ideology is much closer to that of Trump

I am an evangelical

Ah yes of course as a good Christian you would align with the rapist who cheats on and beats his wives and actively defrauds Americans. He truly lives as Jesus did huh.

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

I would much rather have someone who is more righteous but that was not the point. I don't think the Democratic party is super righteous right now either, so given the choice between 2 candidates who do things my religion would teach against I'd rather take the one with policies that often align closely with my beliefs than a candidate who's policies usually blatantly contradict them. But I certainly understand how'd you'd arrive at this point.

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point
  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

The rapist... Who beats... wat? I think you've got the wrong guy here.

  • 3 months ago
  • 0 points

Go read his wife's testimony. Right before she got a hefty settlement that came saddled with a gag clause, preventing her from ever speaking about their marriage without his oversight. Suddenly they were best of friends after she got 12+ million dollars out of the deal.

  • 3 months ago
  • -2 points

Hey, we're not talking about Bill...

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

This would almost be a relevant comment if all those charges fit Bill but they don't. Yes Bill Clinton is, at the least, a sexual predator. I don't think there was ever any indication of Bill Clinton beating Hillary though. And the Whitewater investigation never turned anything up on him. Not like Trump's many run-ins with fraud.

Even if they all fit though, he has also been out of office for longer than the average age of a PCPP Off Topic forum goer. I mean, you were barely out of diapers when he started his second term.

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

Ah okay, that's fair. I won't chastise you for those beliefs as I certainly can't change them. If I were in your position, I'm sure Trump would seem like the best option to me as well.

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

Oh no, not another controversial political thread...

Although I did start the last one so I guess I'm not really in the space to complain.

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

Yep

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

At this point, I dislike politicians because of stuff like senators getting paid during government shutdowns.

  • 2 months ago
  • 1 point

Andrew Yang for the win 🥳

  • 3 months ago
  • -3 points

If I could vote, I would go for Trump. I just don't agree with the policies other candidates want to enact. One such policy being raising minimum wage to $15 an hour. This will kill our small businusses, which are a huge part of the economy, and will eventually hurt us. What really needs to happen is these people that attempt to live off of minimum wage need to actually do something more. If you don't strive to climb the ladder of success, you won't. Minimum wage was meant to be a starting point, not a full living wage. Also, I completely disagree with the "healthcare for all" policy. All it sounds like to me is the start to socialism. The"share the wealth" mentality that destroys countries.

All just to say that I disagree with what the dem candidates want to do, and I think if any of them get into office, we are in some sort of trouble.

  • 3 months ago
  • 7 points

What really needs to happen is these people that attempt to live off of minimum wage need to actually do something more. If you don't strive to climb the ladder of success, you won't. Minimum wage was meant to be a starting point, not a full living wage.

Minimum wage was always intended to be a living wage. What you have repeated here is a common talking point that is false. This is what FDR had to say about the minimum wage at the time:

In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.

Throughout industry, the change from starvation wages and starvation employment to living wages and sustained employment can, in large part, be made by an industrial covenant to which all employers shall subscribe. It is greatly to their interest to do this because decent living, widely spread among our 125, 000,000 people, eventually means the opening up to industry of the richest market which the world has known.

Also:

This will kill our small businusses, which are a huge part of the economy, and will eventually hurt us.

Simile claims were made then too. It didn't happen. Similar claims of economic devastation were made in opposition to ending slavery too. It didn't happen there either. Every time a significant push for workers rights occurs, the rich cry doom. It's always demagoguery.

Now ask yourself how much you actually know about the other things you oppose.

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

Okay, say the economy doesn't get hurt as I have said. The rise in the minimum wage proposed will not really have as much effect. Yes, people will be paid more, but also, with that raise in salary also comes a rise in living costs, as companies need to make up the extra cost somewhere. Therefore, the increase will not actually help as much as they make it sound. Also, it would be more economically friendly to introduce the increase in increments, not all at once.

Every time a significant push for workers rights occurs, the rich cry doom. It's always demagoguery.

I am not trying to vouch for the rich, I am trying to protect the smaller businesses that make up the U.S. economy.

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

Rather than pivot to another talking point after it is illustrated that you are parroting flatly false propaganda, maybe it's time to do some introspection and research.

This isn't an attack on you and I am not trying to be mean. I just want to make sure you truly understand what has happened here; that you got hooked by a lie, by people who want you to spread the lie for them. This is how propaganda works.


Anyways, the minimum wage isn't earned by THAT many people in the US. Small businesses on average already pay much more than the minimum wage to their employees, and in fact pay more than a $15 min would be too. The cost of paying a decent min wage could easily be absorbed by the vast majority of corporations, who are the ones who mostly pay it or close to it. McDonald's, Starbucks, Walmart, etc, companies with gross profits in excess of 10 billion a year (in Walmart's case, in excess of 100 billion a year). In recent years due to public pressure, Walmart, Target, and Starbucks (idk about McD) have bumped their hourly pay. There is actually no "need to make up the extra", because they already have it. They have had it.

And even if they do need to increase prices (more realistic, they choose to, because they want to), you're overstating the effect. It isn't like a grande is going to go up the same amount of dollars that the hourly wage goes up. Starbucks has increased prices in recent years, by pennies, a couple times. Did it bankrupt anybody? Nope. Did most people even notice? Nope. It really doesn't matter to the experience of the average Starbucks patron if they increase the cost of a coffee $0.20, as they have. Starbucks was always expensive coffee already. That is an easy trade for employees making several-dollars-per-hour more. Starbucks net income has been higher in the last two years, while they were increasing wages, than it has ever been.

  • 3 months ago
  • 0 points

No one has a crystal ball. Market forces tend to react when you increase costs. Less people will go to Starbucks when baristas make a lot more. Hence increased cost for coffee. Starbucks will probably automate more quickly which could give rise to greater unemployment. Social experimentation has risks. No one here can, with certainty, know how it will unfold. People tend to be conservative about such things. FDR pulled the country out of the Great Depression. Maybe he made strides to avoid spiraling into socialism. Unfortunately, there are different paths to the same end. History is a great teacher but it’s not an exact road map to today’s issues.

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

That's a really long winded way to say:

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

Less people will go to Starbucks when baristas make a lot more. Hence increased cost for coffee.

What? That's not how it works at all. The increase in minimum wage results in either Starbucks firing people to cut costs or raising the price of their coffee, thus lowering demand. Less people won't go to Starbucks when their servers get paid more lmao.

And minimum wage doesn't necessarily cause unemployment. If you give more people more disposable income, their marginal propensity to consume increases, spending more and requiring firms to increase worker count as a result of that demand.

  • 3 months ago
  • 2 points

Less people won't go to Starbucks when their servers get paid more lmao.

Don't even bother man it's not worth it lmao. I saw "if people get paid more, other people won't shop there!" and just noped right out of that potential conversation.

While we are talking about it though, I said it in this thread somewhere awhile ago: Starbucks has actually been increasing wages in recent years, and they bumped coffee prices up a couple times too. AND they've had their best years ever at the same time in regards to revenue. So the entire fear is unfounded, like it always was.

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

Don't even bother man it's not worth it lmao. I saw "if people get paid more, other people won't shop there!" and just noped right out of that potential conversation.

Dude I straight up thought I was being trolled, just can't believe it dude haha.

While we are talking about it though, I said it in this thread somewhere awhile ago: Starbucks has actually been increasing wages in recent years, and they bumped coffee prices up a couple times too. AND they've had their best years ever at the same time in regards to revenue. So the entire fear is unfounded, like it always was.

Probably just inflation tbh. Things have been getting more expensive >.>

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

First sentence.....No one has a crystal ball. Second sentence.....Market forces tend to react when you increase costs. I could go on but why bother. I am pleased that you were so amused. I often wonder if people are really laughing out loud reading pcpartpicker forums?

  • 2 months ago
  • 2 points

Third sentence:

Less people will go to Starbucks when baristas make a lot more

I don't need a crystal ball to tell you that's just wrong, and yes, it does amuse me, because I cannot believe someone would utter such an egregious statement when it seems you have knowledge about what you're talking about.

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

"Sharing is caring"

And now I quote Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol :

“Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude,” returned the gentleman, “a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?” “Nothing!” Scrooge replied. “You wish to be anonymous?” “I wish to be left alone,” said Scrooge. “Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don’t make merry myself at Christmas and I can’t afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned—they cost enough; and those who are badly off must go there.” “Many can’t go there; and many would rather die.” “If they would rather die,” said Scrooge, “they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. Besides—excuse me—I don’t know that.” “But you might know it,” observed the gentleman. “It’s not my business,” Scrooge returned. “It’s enough for a man to understand his own business, and not to interfere with other people’s. Mine occupies me constantly. Good afternoon, gentlemen!”

I'm obviously not going insane.

[comment deleted]
  • 3 months ago
  • 2 points

Hasn't Bernie shot for the presidential seat three times?

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  • 3 months ago
  • 2 points

I have questions... 1) What/who billionaires propped up Buttigieg? 2) Why do you assume democratic/Independent voters are smarter then republican? 3)How are Sanders plans going to improve our lives?

[comment deleted]
  • 3 months ago
  • 3 points

No more student debt

Want to end Student debt, the answer is not to wipe it out, but to end federally secured student loans. That way colleges would have to find ways to lower costs. Sorry, but students that went into deep debt to get a degree should not be bailed out by the rest of us.

Minimum wage increase

This I agree with to a certain point.

Protect Seniors

The big question here is how he will pay for it. You will have to make the jobs pay enough for people to want to take them. Caring for the elderly is not easy.

Affordable homes

A pipe dream at best. For one, national rent control will never get pasted and I doubt it would stand up to legal challenges. Second, affordable housing projects have been tried before...they never work well.

Caring for Veterans

Good idea, again it just comes down to how to pay for it.

End Medical Bills

Very good idea, the US has need some type of universal health care for awhile. Thing is just extending medicare is not the answer.

  • 3 months ago
  • 2 points

So now instead of the people having student debt the government can have student debt...that might be an improvement but it's still not exactly ideal. Let's be honest our government needs to reduce spending, not take on multi-trillion dollar plans.

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

Thank you for the thoughtful answer. The Forbes corporate donor list points me right at Tulsi or Bernie as a honorable candidates. Your list of how Bernie will improve Americans lives is interesting to say the least. Noble objectives for sure. What makes you so sure government can solve these grand problems effectively or efficiently? Does this not seem like a lot to pay for in the term of four years? How much more in taxes would I have to pay? I have medical, retirement, senior care, and I paid all my debt including college. This is because I worked hard, planned well, and made sacrifices. What benefit is there to me to pick up the slack for all these problems? Do I get reimbursed for my college expenses? Will part of my rent be subsidized? I am a vet but I don't use the VA so I am thinking maybe with these improvements I should. If minimum wage goes up does my pay go up too? After all people with no skills will be making all most as much as me. Medical bills suck I would really like to not have them. Of course my families health insurance has become atrociously expensive. Won't this cost go up under with Bernie's plan? If I have to pay even more for health care so others get to have it I just see that as me paying other peoples medical bills. Am I wrong? One other thing I work two jobs for a total of three in my household. Will Bernie's plan reduce the number of jobs I have? The reason I work two jobs is because both employers can't find anyone else that's more qualified. Maybe Bernie's plan should include job training? Man sorry about the length... I still have a lot more questions.

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  • 3 months ago
  • -1 points

How can you say that Republicans will vote for Trump no matter what

Would love for Republicans to prove RobertL90 wrong on this. =)

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[comment deleted]
  • 3 months ago
  • 2 points

hy·per·bo·le... check it out.

  • 3 months ago
  • 0 points

I don't affiliate myself with one particular party. I vote whoever I agree with the most. When it comes to Trump, people voted for him because it made sense. What he said matched what they believed, and he had logical solutions for real world problems. While I don't agree with everything he has done, I support the things he's improved for most of us. The accomplishments during his administration have and always will be undermined by the media and general public for reasons I don't understand. So many people are so far "Anti-Trump" they can't see any good he's done. When he says voters will keep voting for him, it's because the ones who do see through his flaws and sees that he cares. They see the good things he's done outweighing the bad things and even making up for the mistakes of others.

As for the current impeachment issue, voters including myself will still vote for him because he has yet to be found guilty of doing anything wrong. The house voted to have him removed but the Senate still has to make a decision before it is final to avoid wrongful processes. In addition (and correct me if I'm wrong) we haven't had a fair trail yet in comparison to the other two impeachment trials in U.S. History. There haven't been any witnesses called to trial in this case, and as we speak there are people withholding information from the Senate that may be essential in making a decision regarding this. Those are the reasons he continues to get support that will stay with him. Most people see him as a free spirit not bought out, one that is actually doing it for himself and the people who put him there. I'll remember his campaign for the rest of my life for one simple action. I was born and raised in Concord, NC and for as long as I can remember the closest a presidential candidate has ever come to us was Charlotte, NC. President Trump held a rally in Concord, NC at the arena where our local fair takes place. He was not even 5 miles from my childhood home, and 2 miles from my high school where we had a farm on the campus and drove tractors to school lol. NC has voted Republican in the last 5 elections, however each time and overall they are only leaning Conservatives by a 7% margin. In other words, our state may be a "red state" statistically, but in reality people here are very much evenly mixed. We're not all the racist hillbilly conservatives many (even our fellow Carolinians) think we are. For Trump to come to our little town and put on a (correct me if I'm wrong) free campaign rally was huge to us.

  • 3 months ago
  • 1 point

What do you think of the YangGang (Andrew yang)?

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  • 2 months ago
  • 1 point

using fossil fuels is actually a good thing

There are a few camps. One doesn't believe in global warming, doesn't care, or believes it isn't as serious as it is made out to be; a good portion of these people are also swayed by first hand experience of the fossil fuel industry slump, such as laid off coal workers in the Appalachians and dying towns as fossil fuel based businesses close up shop. Another camp sees global warming as a problem but that so called renewable energy just shifts the issue and creates more; the materials used to support so called renewable energy, such as creating windmill blades or even worse the batteries used to store energy, are generally non renewable and can create their own horrific waste problems. Even if they agree global warming is a serious and dire issue, the current renewable technologies aren't convincing enough to switch.

health care

Many people don't want to give up private insurance; worth noting that Canada, a common example I hear of socialized medicine due to its proximity to the US, has private insurance. Some think health care is not the government's job. The outrageous costs of health care as it stands are probably more universally agreed upon as an issue, but Bernie's health care plans as the solution to that issue are not reflective of the public majority.

corruption

Some people don't see it, apparently. This point though I think is much more universally accepted, as one of Trump's major selling points on the campaign trail was his promise to "Drain the Swamp." The solutions, like with health care, seem to be more open to contention.

student loan debt

There's more camps here. Some don't see the issue even when presented with facts about tuition rates skyrocketing in comparison to wages. I've heard the fun, "back in my day we had student loan debt, but we also worked full time jobs and breaks and didn't use student loans to buy cars or trips or anything" arguments, and that cost of college is an issue but that college should not be a right. There's also those that believe the whole education system is broken and needs a paradigm shift, as standardized testing is pushed more heavily but yet the education system keeps falling in relation to other countries. Similarly there are those that believe that 4 year college is outdated; whether it be vocational school, training programs, or community college, alternative education to get a career kickstarted is a better plan than accumulating huge debt at traditional venues, and once employed many employers offer tuition assistance to get a degree.

While cost is a concern for many people, this is a section where there's a lot more convoluted gaps: from trends in HR and labour force, to traditional plans being beaten into young heads ("you HAVE to go to 4 year college immediately after high school"), to the debate of higher education being a right or an aspiration you must work for, I don't actually think any solution has a plurality of the public in agreement.

old and military care

Many people don't trust Bernie on this due to his record with the VA. Some believe this responsibility to lay primarily with family. That old people and vets should be cared for itself is likely not the contentious part.

Homelessness

Some see it as a responsibility of the states, not federal government, or do not agree with Bernie's plans. There are also people that have negative perceptions of homelessness, which is its own public education issue.

paid enough to live

Debate over minimum wage, what it should be, and what it should represent is complex. Economic ramifications more so. Some people think working a 40 hour/week retail job should be enough to support a stay at home spouse and kids. Some think minimum wage itself should be done away with in favour of free market forces, with at least some of the idea being that wages would regulate based on competition and that people wouldn't work for a completely unlivable wage.

Do you honestly believe that all the things Bernie believes in aren't shared by ordinary people, when these are the very issues that are having the biggest impact on their daily lives?

They share concerns over many of the issues. The opinions on them are vastly varied.

It's disingenuous to equate the presence of an issue with supporting someone who discusses a plan for that issue. In many cases, it sounds condescending and is more likely to push away potential voters than attract them. At least try to understand the other viewpoints at play so you can better prepare for these arguments and persuade people, rather than accuse people of not caring about the issues and drive them away.

Personal note: Bernie isn't my top pick but he is a fair sight better than Biden/Warren to me. I see this kind of rhetoric quite a bit, upvoted and praised by people who already praise the candidate (this isn't exclusively a Bernie thing), but then I'll see people get polarized in the opposite direction by that rhetoric. If you don't want Trump to win, don't push away moderates and centrists by accusing them.

[comment deleted]
  • 2 months ago
  • 1 point

According to a July 22 poll from the PBS NewsHour, NPR and Marist, 70 percent of U.S. adults said they supported Medicare for All proposals as long as they maintain an option to keep private health insurance. A system like this has been proposed by Pete Buttigieg. By comparison, when asked in a separate question, only 41 percent of survey respondents said they wanted to scrap private health insurance for a government-run plan.

Emphasis mine. Source

The Hill poll makes no distinction between a plan like Bernie's that doesn't allow for private insurance and public option plans like Buttigieg's. A few other polls I've seen show similar results, but I've also seen articles about how support for single payer/no private insurance plans is shrinking.

they've been sold a mirage

Canada has private insurance along with the public health care. While opinions are mixed there as well and personal sampling is inaccurate at best, most Canadians I have spoken to want their private insurance. The reasons why are varied and complex; dismissing supporters of private insurance as having been sold a mirage without addressing actual concerns is, again, a good way to push away potential voters and help Trump get elected.

With regard to moderate/centrist candidates I think they should be called out all the time. They all appear bought and paid for by corporate and lobbyist interests and never put first the interests of their actual voters. Show me one even remotely intelligent person that doesn't believe that when profit motivated companies give millions of dollars to a centrist politician that it isn't to influence said politician to act in their interest over and above the voters. Or that when a politician accepts such money they don't prioritise the views of the companies giving them millions of dollars over the ordinary voters who aren't.

Anyone paid for by corporations and lobbyists should be called out for it, or at the very least have all those donations publicly and loudly disclosed. There's a reason most Democrats in the race have pledged to not accept SuperPAC and other disdained aid. Buying politicians is nothing new, but it is not intrinsically a moderate or centrist problem. Many of the progressive left politicians accepted PAC money in the past, for example, but renounce it now that it is convenient.

Sanders has now surpassed 5 million individual donations

A fun party trick: Make it easy and convenient to donate each month. Each counts as a separate individual donation. Congratulations, big numbers that look good! If we look at small donations as a percentage of the overall total, Sanders is not at the top. The top includes Yang and Castro in close contention, followed by Marianne Williamson. If you look at total dollars in small donations, Trump is beating Sanders by more than Warren's small donation total. Sanders does have the highest dollar total in small donors among the Democratic party, so there's that.

Sanders is leading public opinion on every major issue because he's the only one taking these issues seriously, because he actually put most of them on the map in the first place.

Uh, no. I'm not quite sure how to even begin with this. He did put Medicare for All on the map in the US, but socialized medicine isn't new. And he certainly isn't the only candidate taking issues seriously.

When it comes to using fossil fuels you say this is a good thing

Not my opinion on the subject, but it is an opinion on the subject. Just need to make that clear.

renewable energy industry is still in its infancy and these production techniques can be improved made both more cost effective with greater economies of scale and produced in a more environmentally friendly way, as we are starting to in other places around the world.

This! The start of a good argument. Build on that, and address how a transition could look, where money could come from, etc.

Fossil fuels should have already died out when we started replacing oil lamps with electric light bulbs, electric power is the future!

Except that electric power was produced by coal. Kerosene and similar petrol products are actually clean by comparison. It's the electric car problem: no direct emissions, but giant toxic batteries made of rare materials and electricity produced by burning coal makes the proposition a lot less appealing. Electric power is the future, of that there is little doubt. But getting there and making it sustainable is the hard and complex part.

show me an American who actually thinks breathing in toxic smoke is a good thing

I've known a few people that think smoking marijuana is in absolutely no way harmful but purely beneficial. There's a lot of uh... interesting theories out there when it comes to health. That's getting a bit off topic though.

top pick

Yang. I've mentioned this a few times. Worth noting he has a higher percentage of small donations than Bernie and also has put his own money into his campaign.

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