Me too :/
Having played with an i3, i5, i7 as well as an 860k & 8370E I would encourage you to try something else. Gaming and computing in general only gets better from the i3. Please don't take me for an elitist here either. In fact, I'm about to put together a watercooled fx 6300 build just for grins. It's just my opinion, based on my own experience with many CPUs, that an i3 is garbage for what it costs outside of some very specific parameters(dx9...).
No, I'm not. It's not magic, it's an intelligent API. There are more variables than either of us could shake a stick at if we were to be completely objective about this discussion, but I'll simplify it down in an imperfect but hopefully clear way. An 860k with a cheap cooler can be had for about $100. It's safe to assume a 10% overclock is in the cards. The highest performing i5 listed between $100-$200 on Newegg is the 4590 for $199. Using PassMark(please remember I said imperfect, ok) the performance of these two CPUs, once the 860k is OC'd, will be within 10% of each other. DX12, much like PassMark, will not be limited to using just a couple of the cores, negating Intel's current IPC advantage and subsequently higher frame-rates. Everyone wins - especially the guy that only spent $100 because he could then spend that same $100 on a better GPU or nicer monitor.
Like I said - Kepler and older nvidia GPUs lack Asynchronous Shaders. AMD has been building their graphics cards with this technology for years. Nvidia didn't include this tech until late last year on their Maxwell cards. DX12 can leverage this technology to improve performance up to 46%(though realistically it will likely be a bit less). Here is another link to help explain it:
Unfortunately for Nvidia owners with Kepler(700 series) and earlier cards(all the Titans save for X too btw), they were built without one of the key requirements to benefit from DX12 - the previously mentioned asynchronous shaders. DX12 actually enables a greater load to be placed on the GPU relative to the CPU so performance of pre-Maxwell nvidia cards will almost certainly suffer serious performance degradation compared to their AMD counterparts. Hence my hunch that nvidia is slowly pulling support for cards seemingly prematurely in order to get more of the kepler and older owners into the Maxwell series.
Here is a good article explaining asynchronous shading and ACEs - http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/202407-directx-12-liquidvr-may-breathe-fresh-life-into-amd-gpus-thanks-to-asynchronous-compute
The 7870k has 8 Asynchronous Compute Engines.
It's a real shame because the 780/780Ti and Titan Z were beasts. This is not something I've read or could support with facts, but I have a hunch they've given up on them because of how ineffective they'll be compared to AMD's units that are able to take advantage of asynchronous shading upon the implementation of DX12. Just a thought.
I have literally repeated myself saying dx12 will eliminate CPU bottlenecks for quad+cores. Do you understand that means I completely agree that games are going to be GPU intensive/bound? I don't understand how you are missing that. None of that changes the fact that a two threaded pc will no longer be wholly relevant for gaming - it has already proven to be insufficient.
You seem not to understand so I'll walk you through this again. By stating the 7870k is not a true quad-core(implying it is less/not more(hsa...)) you are spreading ignorance. That is not ad-hominem, that is fact. Another fact is that Mantle is very much a real thing, today, in several games. It actively utilizes more than 6 cores in ways that DX11 does not which is why performance is so much better on CPUs with lower IPCs but more cores and also on extremely high end Intels with several high end GPUs(same concept just with thousands of dollars thrown at the GPU side to create CPU bottlenecks as ridiculously high performance envelopes).
The future of Mantle is Vulkan which is why I specifically mentioned it when I typed Mantle/Vulkan. Vulkan is able to scale well with more than 6 cores unlike DX12. Again, all of this is fact not opinion. Rather than be offended that you were completely wrong and getting upset with me about it, you might want to channel that aggression into focus - focus that you can use to do more research. You know, so that next time this won't happen to you. Just a suggestion. Life is too short to be using asterisks at strangers in forums when said stranger is trying to help your understanding of something that you have shown an obvious misunderstanding of. :)
It comes as no surprise that you feel the need to threaten me with a perma-ban for merely pointing out facts. If you were offended by my reactions to you I can't help you - I've still got a smile on my face. The only thing that makes me sad at this point is that I know there are so many more out there holding fast to the same misinformed/misguided perspectives as you do just waiting to "help" others out on forums such as this. I would encourage you to do more research before posting on sites such as this with such strong opinions.
No hostility at all, I'm literally laughing. The thanks was literal. It is helpful for the entire community to learn more about who is saying what and why. Truly, thank you.
1) It is almost like you can't remember what I've shared just a few paragraphs ago. Are you being intentionally difficult? DX12 will prevent situations where games are cpu bound(short of absolute failures at the dev's level).
2) If you truly understood what you were saying here you would actually understand what I've been saying this entire time - you are soooo close to reality it hurts me. You see, soon GPUs and interfaces will be where bottlenecks show up assuming you have a quad-core or better CPU/APU. You are almost there buddy!
3) Look at Mantle and BF4 if you really want a peek into the future. Also, star citizen is still quite the mess concerning optimizations and changes with each update - not a good example in any way.
I have yet to argue with you pal. I'm simply addressing the incorrect or misguiding things you feel the need to "share" here for others to see. I'm not trying to prove a thing, simply attempting to prevent further ignorance - seems to spread like wildfire. I assure you, the 7870k is indeed a true quad-core(and then some with the unmatched iGPU and HSA) just as the FX series CPUs are true quad/hexa/octa-cores.
Again, if you want to see scaling past 6 cores in games you have to use Mantle/Vulkan. Period.
Completely false. Why must you insist on talking about things you no so little about?
PC master race means nothing to you I see. I can't imagine spending $60 on a game as immersive as GTA V and then suffering through sub 30 frame-rates. Also, I do my best not to just "say whatever... and call it a fact" so please identify specifically what you feel isn't fact and I will address it accordingly(correct or clarify as needed).
If pre-2015 dx9/10/11 games are your thing I'd say go for it - spend your money on an i3. If on the other hand you enjoy playing games from this year and would like to play games that come out next year how about you spend less money and purchase better parts that can actually play the games - ALL of them, lol.
haha, $70 Zen. Me thinks not. Lisa Su has been clear that future products will be less oriented to budget friendliness and more geared to performance. I think the 860k/870k itself might be selling like hotcakes soon though if it gets a fair shake from reviewers!
Please don't try and explain what an AMD module is - I'm more than a bit familiar. I get that it isn't exactly what you think you want, but for what it costs and what it is capable of it remains untouched. It is absolutely not a weak quad core that requires 8 threads to be fully utilized - you really should stop talking about things you have such a small and misguided understanding of.
It doesn't matter that it came from AMD's marketing - that is literally a fact of DX12. Look around! It amazes me that people like you don't even know the most basic facts about what is going on today. The fact that DX12 doesn't scale past 6 cores for gaming is basically common knowledge.
Here is an example from notoriously pro-intel guys:
If you want to scale beyond 6 cores you go with Mantle or Vulkan. Google that yourself, so you don't assume I'm just spouting rhetoric back at you.
What you completely and utterly fail to realize is that dx12 isn't about making amd better than intel performance wise, it's about leveling the CPU playing field. That leaves the bottlenecks where they should be - with your GPU and interface(monitor, VR headset, etc...). With the CPU performance advantage taken away all that is left is the choice of cost and form factor(in so far as gaming is concerned).
Now you may ask what is the difference between a 4-threaded i3 and something like this 7870k. iGPU power aside(which is turning out to be a surprisingly large factor now, but i digress), the difference is the i3's virtual cores ability to take advantage of the workload as can be seen here:
Now, we should all know that draw calls are not the be-all end-all when it comes to defining CPU performance in gaming but the point remains: the biggest advantages will be had by "weaker" true quad-core CPUs.
"Ian Bell closes by mentioning that slower quad-core CPUs on the PC front will most likely see a 40% performance boost with DX12, which is similar to what other developers have reported in the past."
You are mistaken. DX12's fantastic scaling actually stops at 6 cores. Here is an explanation from AMD -
As you can see here(and in many other tests) though, AMD's quad core APU receives a massive 11x improvement while the i3 gains are around 7x. DX12 will be great for everyone, but particularly for 4+ core AMD users.
I should clarify the i5 comment - with the widespread implementation of dx12, cpu bottlenecks will no longer be an issue for any of the more popular 4+ core CPUs on the shelf today. When gaming performance is identical between a $70 860k and the $200 i5 I would suggest it has "fallen victim" to the AMD. Sorry I wasn't more clear with my original statement.
It is very comparable to an i7 for my purposes. More so with the elimination of cpu bottlenecks courtesy of dx12. The graph in your link is an 8320e btw. Also worth noting, w/air cooling I run my cpu at a conservative 4.4GHz on all cores so performance is substantially increased compared to the listed stats. Again, I fully understand the 4790k is significantly more powerful per core and also a bit more powerful overall with hyperthreading. For what I do(gaming, school, photo editing, and a bit of content creation) I haven't noticed a thing. I must say though, the one advantage I missed after making the transition to AMD was the form factor - I had my devil's canyon in an itx build(not even an option for AM3+) which made travel a breeze.
Glad you're friends pal. Maybe someday you and I will be too. Until then I'll maintain my right to freely disagree. Team blue has enough idiots LOL'ing nonsensically, so I suppose I'll have to stop you right there and let you know that I reserve the right to correct cynical AMD'ers when necessary as well. I'd love to discuss the oc ability of this chip, but last time I checked we don't have any solid reviews(and I don't have a chip on hand just yet - though I will as soon as MSI gets me a bios update). Instead of pessimism I think I'll continue with optimism given the new stepping, improved cooling and dx12 right around the corner(I've got a hunch the 7870k will be better optimized for it, particularly regarding multiadapter use).
You're funny. How did you like that DX12 link? The only troll here is the one suggesting a G3258 is anything but pointless. You just affirmed my comment that even something as simple as a chromebook can make use of >2 threads. At least you're not recommending it :)
synonyms: senseless, futile, hopeless, fruitless, useless, needless, in vain, unavailing, aimless, idle, worthless, valueless
I'm sure "normal" people with their "normal" $199 chromebooks are ok with just two threads. Are those "normal" people on here discussing a desktop APU with state of the art integrated graphics? In the context of this discussion what I said is 100% true. Perhaps it is time for you to calm down.
Would you like it if I used the word "pointless" instead of useless? If we're getting into semantics that is indeed a word better choice. In addition to the obvious benefits of having 4 core/4 threads such as enjoying a better browsing experience(do you use Chrome?) and actually being able to play recent titles, a $5 premium over the G3258 will net a budget pc builder this benefit as well - http://wccftech.com/project-cars-dev-dx12-improve-performance-3040/
I'd say that relegates two threads to the "useless" bin.
Quote me correctly please - I said "two threads are nigh on useless as we've seen." That is 100% true. I'm perfectly calm btw. ;)
Indeed. I must admit though, I was swept up by the near unanimous internet clamor that team blue and green are the refined/quality choice for gaming. Owning some of the best of what both have to offer over the last year has completely opened my eyes though. Massive amounts of marketing money and dishonesty on the part of a tremendous amount of reviewers has really impacted pc part sales over the last 12 months. Total shame too, given how much incredible tech is out right now for really solid prices.
Interesting comment given Intel's competing chips are locked. G3258 isn't in the same league, btw. Two threads are nigh on useless now as we've seen.
Same price as many GTX 970s @ $350, lol. I would advise NOT to purchase just yet though as the Hawaii refresh should be for sale within a month and will feature some nice tweaks such as increased clock speed and better efficiency while still being around this same price point and having 8GB as well.
Nvidia has only been optimizing game drivers for their Maxwell cards(9xx series) and left their Kepler cards(7xx series) out to dry. In games such as Witcher 3 Nvidia owners are seeing budget GTX 960s perform better than GTX 780s for no reason other than driver optimizations. It isn't a matter of new tech vs old, it's just Nvidia's attempt to force people to purchase new cards. Terrible practice considering many of their angry customers purchased these cards less than a year ago for very large premiums.
Zen doesn't appear to be much stronger than the 4790k from AMD's own suggestions. DX12 is what we need.
Again, you show a lack of knowledge. I3 won't even run GTA 5 and other new titles well or even at all. I lost absolutely nothing in terms of actual processing power - my 8370e with a raijintek pallas cooler($30) oc'd to 4.4 clears 10K on cpu benchmarks where my 4790k was at 11k. Absolutely no noticeable decline in processing power or gaming power. Very soon(upon release of dx12 games) the I5 will fall victim to the 860k/870k. I forgot to mention I've also gone through a 290x - fantastic OC model from gigabyte that I put a g10 and x40 on. Again, at 1080p that was pure overkill. I'll be taking the 8GB refreshed Hawaii card to run my black Friday monitor this year(3440x1440p) but until then I'm tickled pink to have two perfectly good PCs for the price of one. If you would stop being influenced by garbage and try these products first hand you'd know better.
Ironically, the only game that has even been noticeably different was dx9 world of tanks. So yeah, go ahead and get yourself an I3 if you plan on playing dx9 games for the foreseeable future. :P Too much ignorance... Too much...
BTW, if you think anyone in their right mind would buy an nvidia card after kepler-gate you're a dam fool, lol
Think it will overclock more than an i3? how about that for a lol. I really can't wait until dx12 comes out. Until then how about we LOL at how this chip(and its x4 cousins) can run GTA V while intels budget chips fall flat on their overpriced faces.
What's lazy is someone who is foolish enough to say something as ignorant as you just have. I sold my 4790k/gtx 690 set-up when I saw how ridiculously good the deals were on AMD's fx series. So glad I made the switch to 8370e($120)/xfx 280 black edition($160). For the price of my used 4790k and 690 on ebay I was able to purchase a complete setup - cpu, mobo, cpu cooler, ram, gpu, ssd, and psu from microcenter/newegg. The leftover parts from the previous intel build are now home to a wicked little 860k build. That is two builds for the price of ONE with absolutely no noticeable difference in gaming for me. It saddens me how easily so many fools are swayed by savvy marketing.